The Wise & The Wandering
How did you end up here? Maybe we can help get you on the right path.
Join Dr. Don Schaefer and Justin Olbrantz on a journey of complete positivity designed to help you Heal, Feel, & GET REAL. Bridging the gap between generations old and new - Find what you have been missing in the puzzle called Life: A podcast full of answers directed to a lost world full of questions.
The Wise & The Wandering
The Church Is The People, (Not The Building) - Episode 27
In this episode, the hosts Dr. Don and Justin tap into talking about the true purpose of the church, emphasizing that it is about the people rather than the buildings. They discuss the misinterpretations surrounding the church and underscore the importance of fellowship, intimate gatherings, and the spiritual connection among believers. Through scriptural references and personal insights, they challenge modern religious practices and advocate for a return to the foundational teachings of Jesus, focusing on building a community of believers who support and uplift each other.
Thebetteryou.org
Episode 27 - The Church Is The People, Not The Building
[00:00:00] Justin: Hi, everyone. This is Justin Olbrantz. And this is Don Schaefer. And you are listening to the wise and the wandering podcast for those who know “the Way” and for those who are led astray. And if you feel like you fall into either of those categories, then you're in the right place. So let's dive in…
[00:00:32] Justin: So don, what are we going to talk about today?
[00:00:34] Don: Well, just then I think we're going to talk about the church is the people and Not a building. interesting topic.
[00:00:41] Justin: It is interesting. Okay, so repeat that so the church Is the people Not the building. Not the building. Okay, so the building is not the church. No.
[00:00:50] Justin: It's the people.
[00:00:50] Don: It is. It is. Yeah, it's an interesting topic, because I know, , most people know this, that it's the people.
[00:00:57] both: Yeah.
[00:00:58] Don: But that's not the way it's [00:01:00] portrayed. Right. They're building buildings. And they call the buildings the church. And uh, that's where this podcast here is gonna be good, because it's gonna probably put a little focus on what a church is really meant to be.
[00:01:12] Justin: Yeah,
[00:01:12] Don: exactly. I don't want
[00:01:13] Justin: to
[00:01:14] Don: Right.
[00:01:14] Justin: With this kind of title, it might be a little controversial in some respect, but I don't want to re imagine the way the church is, I want to re focus on what it actually is. Yeah. The church is the people, where two or more are gathered, He is in the midst. He is. When we are getting people together, What we would probably traditionally call the church.
[00:01:38] Don: Yeah,
[00:01:39] Justin: that's actually just a fellowship. We are fellowshipping So we have the people together that make up the church the body of Christ, right? They're the body. Jesus is the head. Yeah, we're the body So now I guess just knowing that we are the church the people are the church the [00:02:00] building is often called the church right actual physical building and And They often like to also say like we are the The, that's the temple of God, the house of God is the church.
[00:02:12] Justin: I've heard that a lot. When in reality, in the biblical sense, we are actually the temple of God. That's right. We are the house of God. I'm not in the house of God when I'm in the church building. Not so much. I am the house of God, because the spirit of God is inside of me. The spirit of Jesus Christ, the spirit of Christ.
[00:02:37] Justin: whose name was Jesus, is inside of me. Right. Right? So the church Is any believer who is part of the body of Christ who believes in Jesus as their Lord and Savior, right?
[00:02:52] Don: Yeah, it is, Justin. And, um, it's, it's interesting because, you know, in all reality, uh, the church [00:03:00] world today, The church buildings and organizations, you know, a lot of it's run just like a business would be run,
[00:03:08] both: you
[00:03:08] Don: know, and it's a place Nothing against you know, what stuff they're all doing but uh, it's a place like you're saying a fellowship a place to belong Uh, they teach good things and you know, try to get people closer to god But excuse me, but the purpose I think of the church might be a little bit different than what Jesus originally talked about when he was talking to Peter He says, you know upon this rock.
[00:03:33] Don: I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it
[00:03:37] both2: Yeah,
[00:03:37] Don: you know, so basically he was saying upon This rock meaning Jesus Christ
[00:03:43] both: He
[00:03:43] Don: says I'm gonna build this church and the gates of hell all the evils and the things of the world Can't work against that. It's an area of protection, you know a church building and that's where today you Uh,, you see these organizations out there that people associate [00:04:00] and there isn't a whole lot of difference in the people that are a part of that than people that might be going to the football game or something like that, you know, I mean, yeah, maybe they don't act all the same way and stuff like that, but their lives.
[00:04:12] Don: You know, I mean, they'll go and they'll live like anything, and then they'll go on church on Sunday.
[00:04:16] both2: And
[00:04:17] Don: it's almost like an appeasement to say that I went to this building, you know, and because I do this, you know, I'm a good guy.
[00:04:23] Justin: And it makes me feel good,
[00:04:24] Don: and I can dress
[00:04:24] Justin: up nicely.
[00:04:25] Don: That's right, but all the issues, you know, the issues and stuff that people who do not go to church, and I think, you know, in this day and age, there's a lot of people that are starting to see this.
[00:04:36] Don: Because you're seeing a lot of churches that are not as full as they once were. I know I've had friends that went over to uh, Europe, and a lot of these cathedrals and stuff. A lot of these places are empty, you know, and people, the money and everything that's been put into building a place. Building
[00:04:52] both2: and
[00:04:53] Don: calling it a church,
[00:04:54] both2: you know,
[00:04:55] Don: we are missing something here And I think god has got something a lot more [00:05:00] special than that And you know, hopefully in this podcast we can explain that a little bit because I think there's a different way of looking At what the church is meant to be and do for a person.
[00:05:10] Justin: Yeah, and like you said it goes back to The church about it goes back to jesus telling peter upon this rock. I built the church Now there's there might even be a misrepresentation or a misinterpretation there in terms of people thinking that Jesus was talking about Peter being the rock. Yeah.
[00:05:29] Justin: Because his name was, his name was CFUs, his name was Pebble. That's what he translates to. Yeah. Right, right. But. But like you're saying, it is the revelation that He is the Son of God, that He is God Himself, which was what the church was being built on. That's the rock. And the gates of Hades would not prevail.
[00:05:48] Justin: So the fact that there could be a misinterpretation there could mean we've been misinterpreted for a long time if we weren't looking at the correct basis of what the church was. So the church [00:06:00] itself is the people, is the body of believers. Right. Right. Jesus He was the head of the believers. There's a body, the body of believers, the believers of the bodies of the head.
[00:06:13] Justin: So when you look at Paul, for instance, Paul, you know, Ephesians, Corinthians, these letters, first Corinthians, for example, you know, he's, he's talking to, there's people that are, especially in Romans, because, you know, he's writing to, uh, Rome. Definitely the, the Roman government was definitely not accepting any believers of Jesus Christ.
[00:06:35] Justin: The apostles were persecuted for this and Paul dodged a lot of bullets because he had Roman citizenship. But when Paul was writing these letters, he was writing them to, The churches of these areas and these, they were actually meeting in homes. Right. They were not meeting in what we would consider, consider these temple buildings.
[00:06:56] Don: Yeah.
[00:06:57] Justin: So the churches were being built [00:07:00] up. The rock was being built up within these homes. Right. And they're meeting in houses. Very different than I would say you would look at the traditional church today. Yeah. And I think the reason I, I guess I go off on a little tangent here is just to say that the way modern religion
[00:07:18] both: has
[00:07:18] Justin: interpreted this as kind of, um, and I don't want to say anything bad about religion because I think that there's a lot of great things about religion.
[00:07:30] Justin: I don't like that there's necessarily so many different denominations. I think that causes a lot of division, especially in when it comes down to singular beliefs that changes the way a denomination is formed.
[00:07:43] both: Yeah.
[00:07:44] Justin: But I do want to say that Because of the common religion, the modern day religion, It has dispositioned us away from the true intention of what God, what Jesus intended for the church to be.
[00:07:58] Don: I agree with you. [00:08:00] I agree with you on that, Justin. And that's where it's nice to shed a little light on thoughts here. And that's what we're doing because I know like in Peter himself in one of his, uh, Epistles, he talked about the church being lively stones. He talked about us being part of the building We're lively stones being fit in into a place and it talks about jesus being the head, you know So what we need to do is we need to get connected with jesus and I and I believe you know, I , I read a book, I read a book, Justin, this is a while back, and, you know, and it was an interesting book because, uh, the book title was Four Generations, and, um, it was all about breakout moments, where there was a revelation, where people started to realize what was really happening, and it was always about, uh, and I'll just use, uh, Martin Luther as an example, you know, he started to see that we're saved by faith.
[00:08:54] Don: You know, we're not it's not indulgences. It's not working your way to heaven It's basically having faith in [00:09:00] god and trusting god and trusting in his word and it was a breakout moment There was an explosion and stuff a lot of things going on But the book was saying that you give it four generations and what'll happen to these people break out moments is they will try to make an organization out of it, you know, and they will make a building and they will make an organization with rules and regulations and all that.
[00:09:20] Don: And they will create something where the spirit of God is, can't move anymore, you know, because there's a man sitting in the spot of where, where Jesus is meant to be in, in the church as a whole. And, and you know, this goes on and on, you know, the book went on from organization to organization to organization.
[00:09:38] Don: Yeah. So you look at right now, you know, if you go back in the Bible, they died. They were willing to give up their life for what they believed in because there was power in these church bodies.
[00:09:49] both2: You
[00:09:49] Don: know, when it says the gates of Hades can't prevail against it, there was power there, you know. So the forces of evil Couldn't stand a solid church body because you couldn't [00:10:00]touch it
[00:10:00] both: You know
[00:10:00] Don: Jesus was the one that was protecting that and bringing great faith and letting miracles and what have you Happening within that body of believers, and I don't think it was multi 5, 000 or 10, 000 people calling themselves a church, but I think like you were saying, you know, letters to these households, you know, to these people that met at Joe's place where you got a half dozen or whatever people getting together, praising God, loving God,
[00:10:30] both: giving
[00:10:31] Don: God or Two or more are gathered.
[00:10:33] Don: He's in the midst of all this. Churches were meant to be small. Yeah. They were meant to be intimate. Yes. You know, and it was a relationship
[00:10:40] Justin: that was there. And everyone was meant to be on the same page. And in the terms of their beliefs, we are to grow together as believers. That's right. That's what we're doing with the houses.
[00:10:49] Justin: They were growing together as believers so they could go out. You know, Jesus's instructions were go out and make disciples of all nations. Go out. So you, you got to go [00:11:00]out. That's your, your action. You go, you're going out. And I think the, the way that religion has kind of taught this, you know, to be honest, is we've, , , what we know of as religion, a lot of the religions of the days, even the, you know, the more popular ones, they took concepts from the Levitical time period.
[00:11:20] Justin: Yeah. They took, um, concepts from Israel. They took like the tabernacle. Yeah. You know, the temple, the, which was a, a mobilized temple, like a tent sort of structure. They took the priests, and what the priests were then, the sons of Aaron, I believe, are, and their role is very different than what we have in, um, the modern religious context.
[00:11:45] Justin: They are, they're almost like mediators sometimes, I guess, between us and God. And, um, I just want to say this. There is no mediator between us and God. Because we have the Holy Spirit. [00:12:00] Because Jesus came to die. And it wasn't just that he died. It was just so that the Holy Spirit would be A Hmong would be able to come out with anybody who believes.
[00:12:10] Justin: So, we shouldn't be led by words from other people, but our own relationship with God, with the Holy Spirit. And I think often we think there are mediators. We're taught, I guess in this religious context, that there are mediators between us and God. We're often taught that there's people That we should go to that come before God and come between us and God and that's not the case because often we're not Spiritual beings we're not looking into the spirit. We're we're we're not we're not Understanding things in the spirit this podcast is about having spiritual wisdom,
[00:12:52] Don: right?
[00:12:52] Justin: Not fleshly wisdom Fleshly wisdom is there but we really want you to get a spiritual wisdom, right? Because The [00:13:00] spirit is willing, the flesh is weak, right? The spirit's willing to minister to us and a lot of the times, just to be honest with you, we go to this building and which we presume is the church and there are believers there, but we go to this building to be ministered to our souls and we are ministered to our souls and we go there and we want to be felt.
[00:13:20] Justin: We want to feel good. We go there with the intention of getting and receiving, which is good. But if you look at the the general context of making disciples of all nations. If you go out, you know, the, the standard procedure I would say is, okay, people go to these, uh, seminary, uh, colleges and these Bible colleges and they teach you to plant a church and then everybody comes to it.
[00:13:47] Justin: But you don't know the grounds of the beliefs. You don't know the principles of the people that are showing up and your plan is to minister to them. But I think it's hard to minister to people in their Spirit right and you're and you're only reaching their [00:14:00] feelings and their their psyches and stuff like that And I think in my opinion the proper way to go about it is the way The Paul was going about the way the Peter was going about it was to create a group of believers a body of believers in these houses And and then we go find a building so we are going to form our we are going to form our own Group of believers where we're all on the same page and we are making disciples of people and then we bring them to the building
[00:14:26] Don: Yeah, right.
[00:14:27] Don: That's true. I know. Uh, yeah what you're saying there, you know, paul getting into paul again is um He would minister and disciple people until he could see jesus in them
[00:14:38] both: Yeah.
[00:14:38] Don: Because then he knew that what was speaking into their life was Jesus himself. And in his church. His job was done. That's right.
[00:14:46] Don: You know, and that's where in our lives, our success in life is getting amongst believers. You know, people who are connected to the source, you know, Jesus Christ himself. And that's where we ourselves have to find [00:15:00] a spot in life. Where we can become a good stone to be a part of a church body. Because your association is where your success comes from.
[00:15:09] Don: You know, you have to be associated with solid people. With people who, uh, have given their life. I know myself, I, a lot of times I've ministered It's just the fact that who do you want in your foxhole? You know a church body is one that's going to look after you and take care of your ever need There is somebody that you can call at 3 o'clock in the morning and they're going to be there for you There is someone that if you have an issue or a problem you can talk to them They're not going to judge you They're not gonna look down They're going to encourage you One hundred percent They're going to try to be there to be with you And that's where , what I But the church body is meant to be not so much everybody's understanding of this is the laws and rules or whatever I need to follow.
[00:15:49] Don: Because there is only one head of the church and it's Jesus Christ. You know, so whatever, if somebody is connected to Jesus and as part of a church body in say this city [00:16:00]and in another city, we have the same type of relationship, our thoughts should be the same. You know, there shouldn't be no differences.
[00:16:06] Don: That's the point. You know, it shouldn't be what I wear, and how I do this, and how I do that, and what type of music we play, and all this sort of thing. See, we have muddied up a lot. And I think, you know, and I'm just going to lay this out here, Justin. Yeah, yeah, sounds good. You know, I know back in the day they crucified Jesus Christ.
[00:16:23] Don: And, um, I know my grandson came up to me and he said, the Romans did it, Grandpa. And I said, no, it wasn't the Romans. It was the religion of that time. You know, they crucified Jesus. because they were the ones that wanted Jesus put away. And so they kicked
[00:16:37] Justin: him out of the synagogue.
[00:16:38] Don: They did it. Yeah. And they wanted Jesus out of there because Jesus had power.
[00:16:42] Don: He had power over the wickedness and the corruptions in this world. Seeing a lot of times what happens in organizations today, they're crucifying Jesus all over again. They're keeping Jesus from fulfilling. The role that he wants to fulfill in a body of believers, you know, and that's where we need to get [00:17:00] ourselves, me included, to a place where Jesus can live inside of us and dwell in us and all the characteristics.
[00:17:07] Don: See, and if I myself can Fine. This is gold, you know, you find people in your life that have that relationship with Jesus Christ That is liquid gold, you know, you want to hang on to this and you want to become everything you can Inside of that group of believers and that's where all of the issues and stuff stuff.
[00:17:27] Don: The gates of hell, all the evils and forces, they really don't have a hold on you anymore. And that's where I look at society today. And I look at it the way it was back in Jesus's day. And back in Jesus's day, they wanted to kill and destroy anybody that entered into that type of relationship, was part of that type of church, because it couldn't be stopped.
[00:17:48] Don: These are people didn't care about their lives. You know, they came, cared about a relationship. They cared about the people that were in their life. They loved them, just like God loves each and every one of us. And we're not seeing that [00:18:00] happen today. We're seeing everything is OK. I don't think the forces of evil have any problems with a lot of the institutions that are out there today because there isn't that type of relationship.
[00:18:10] Don: And we need to develop that, you know, and become. A circle of believers. Now, is that a lot of people? You know, I say not, you know, I mean myself in my personal life, I can't have 50 people and have that type of relationship with 50 people. But I can with some, you know, and if I can find people that have a heart after the things of God, you know, as seeking after God.
[00:18:34] Don: Where I can see Jesus in them. I know I can trust Him. I know I can trust Him in all parts of my life. Any issues or whatever I might have, I've got a resource there. And I think that's what the church was meant to be. It's a place where we can create a circle of believers around us. We're well prepared.
[00:18:52] Don: Protect it. We're protected from the evil and the things and the corruptions and all the things that are in the world but a lot of that has been [00:19:00] Institutionalized, you know, they've taken jesus. They've taken jesus totally out of the picture And you know they and not saying that they don't do they They teach good lessons.
[00:19:10] Don: They have good fellowships. All of it is good, but the essence of what Jesus came and died for is not happening in these people's lives. So they're having the same issues that we have. Everybody else is having in this world of ours because they haven't gotten themselves to a place Where they can be protected from all that.
[00:19:32] Don: Yeah, and you know, and that's where it's a little bit of a different understanding sometimes That a lot of people have but it's a real treasure. This is something that is real and I know for my life Justin I uh, you know my if I got to live it I I might as well figure out what that, what's going on, you know, what I have in life.
[00:19:51] Don: And I think God has given us an opportunity to do that.
[00:19:55] Justin: Yeah, I think so. And I think, you know, when you just look over the course and the timeline [00:20:00] of 2000, 24 years, or just 2000 years later, I don't think a lot has changed in the context of religion and stuff like that. And , what we've interpreted Jesus's messages because if the church all starts with Jesus and that's where he built his church was Through the revelation that he was in fact God in human form Yeah, right, and he was the the Son of God then that means that I think the way that we're doing things could be a little misinterpreted or a little bit off as you've I guess , As you've just kind of explained a little bit in that context not to say that there's anything wrong with believers themselves I think it's just orientation And the structure of things has kept a division between people and God and having the real relationship and the real impact that they're supposed to have.
[00:20:57] Justin: Because the Spirit, the Holy Spirit , [00:21:00] we think of things differently. In our soul, we think of things in our emotions, we think of things in our flesh, that's another way to describe it. That's how we often view the world. So in order to get to a spiritual place, it's hard to even understand that spiritual things exist.
[00:21:19] Justin: In this podcast, I think we've done a good job of, uh, explaining and laying out spiritual things in the way that most people do. Um, more things are spiritual than not and most things really are,
[00:21:31] both: but
[00:21:32] Justin: when it comes to understanding that, you know, Solomon used to say that you need to win people over in their souls.
[00:21:37] Justin: A wise person is someone who wins over someone's souls.
[00:21:41] both2: And how
[00:21:41] Justin: do you win over somebody's soul, right? You have to, it's the outreach,
[00:21:47] both: it's,
[00:21:47] Justin: it's, you know, it's the giving to the people who are in need, right? It's, that's the true. church. You want to disciple the people, you got to win over their souls.
[00:21:57] Justin: Winning over their souls is not just allowing [00:22:00] to, like you were saying, allow 500 people of a congregation to meet in a building to give a sermon and then for them to feel good and then just go about their day or to go about their week for the rest of the six days of the week. Yeah, it is about.
[00:22:15] Justin: Reaching those people where they are in need. It's that outreach. It's giving it's not going to the building to receive It's like going to the going there with the intention of giving And that's how you're going to win people over in their souls because when you win people over in their souls Then they can have a spiritual relationship with god.
[00:22:34] Justin: It opens up the spiritual side Yeah, then the discernment comes the gifts come the revelations come if they believe and it is a process It is a It is a cyclical process. Things, you know, the way that things happen in the spirit is very cyclical. The way things happen in our world, we have a timeline, everything is linear.
[00:22:57] Justin: It's, it's almost like all [00:23:00] these Greek things, everything is Greek. , the months, the names of the months, the names of the days, everything is Greek. And , the true nature of it all is it's more cyclical. And the way that seasons happen, the way that, um, I would even say the way things happen to you in your life are cyclical.
[00:23:18] Justin: It was last July that I felt like this, or last month I felt like this during this time, and now it seems like this month I feel like this. I'm starting to feel rejected by people. I'm starting to reject myself. If you really take the time to look at your journal, you start to see a lot of this stuff happens in cycles and that's direct, that's a direct revelation of how spiritual things are.
[00:23:43] Justin: And I think in, so in order to, Like I'm saying just to wrap it up in order to in order for us to be effective as a church We need to have an effective outreach in order for us to effectively disciple people to create disciplines in people It's not about just ministering to their [00:24:00] feelings and letting them go about their day It's taking a smaller I would say a smaller group of believers We're all on the same page so that we can instill those disciplines in each other.
[00:24:10] Justin: We can , You We can win over their souls by getting to these single moms, these single dads, these people who are really struggling, these people, the homeless, you know, these people that really need the impact, um, that can really see the goodness of God in their, in their family.
[00:24:28] Justin: Own testimony and their own lives so that they can be used to do the same thing for other people
[00:24:35] Don: And that's I think that's what the gospel or the good news was I think when jesus was on this earth He was talking about this. He was talking about a church. He was talking about a kingdom of god He was talking about the nucleus of some place for these people.
[00:24:49] Don: It doesn't matter How badly you're hurting or whatever. See, once you get yourself a part of this type of body, this body takes care of you. This body will pray for your needs, will lift you [00:25:00] up no matter what the circumstance might be. This body is with you in whatever part of life you're going through, it'll be with you.
[00:25:07] Don: And a lot of this, sometimes you can sometimes, uh, You look at the issues that people have, and a lot of it, it's by who they're hanging around with and what they don't have in life,
[00:25:19] both: you know,
[00:25:19] Don: because, , their needs could be met in a body, in a nucleus, their needs can be met, and a lot of this doesn't happen.
[00:25:28] Don: I remember being down in Florida, I was talking to a couple down there, and I was talking about success by association, so it's who you're associated with,
[00:25:38] both: you know.
[00:25:39] Don: In a body of believers who have reached the understanding of who Jesus is and allowed Jesus to be formed in them, you, this is the most precious thing you can possibly have.
[00:25:49] Don: You know, and this, this couple was saying, we want to be a part of this, Don, you know, we want to be part of this. This is the good news. This is a good news. He's a setup. [00:26:00]Jesus has established something here on earth and we can find this, you know, you talk about cyclical things going around, things go around, you know, and I'm a firm believer that you can teach a lot of things, but a lot of things are just not caught,
[00:26:13] both: you know, and when you're,
[00:26:14] Don: when you're talking about reaching out to people in need, Taking care of needs.
[00:26:18] Don: It helps them to catch things, you know, to catch the understanding, catching, catching the realization of, of what life is really about. And we live in a society today, especially the way things are around the world. There's not a lot of hope. There's not a lot of hope, but there really is a body out there.
[00:26:36] Don: You know, you have to find this, you know, and, and that's where, when it comes to ministering, you know, Jesus, one of us. To be disciples reaching out and ministering and sharing the good news, making disciples of all men throughout all nations. Mm-Hmm, . Okay. What you're doing is basically what Jesus did. He spent three years with these guys and allowed them to catch something.
[00:26:56] Don: You know, he, Jesus was the example of everything. Mm-Hmm. . [00:27:00] He went to his father every night. He prayed. Every day, you know, he went through and fasted, you know, the things he went through of giving of himself, he gave up his life, but he, he counted it as all joy. And he talked about getting us in a position where our joy can be full.
[00:27:19] Don: And when, once you get yourself in a body of believers that have connected with the King, which is Jesus Christ himself, you know, our needs, the way we look at things, you know, we realize. This is just a passing, you know, he's just developing something, but we've placed ourselves in a safe place. We placed ourselves amongst people around us that will give their lives for us, for me, and I'll give my life for them.
[00:27:45] Don: And there is no more comfortable spot to be in life because we realize that everything in this life is going to be gone someday, but you know, I need protection. Back in the Bible, if you read in the Bible, if somebody was to sin against the [00:28:00] body, the They, they gave them over to the devil. How did they do it?
[00:28:03] Don: Yeah, I remember
[00:28:04] Justin: Paul saying They got them
[00:28:06] Don: out of that church group. We
[00:28:07] Justin: deliver them to Satan. Yeah. Yeah,
[00:28:09] Don: you know, you get them out of the church group. The gates of hell cannot prevail against a solid body, you know, and you don't see that in today you know people are not being connected the way they should and There needs to be a place where we're connected with Jesus Christ in that relationship And if you find people in your life that have that connection and want to associate with you you hang on to them like gold Gold, because these are ones that are going to be through, uh, through thick or thin with you, whatever your issue might be.
[00:28:39] Don: It talks about, the Bible talks about sharing your faults, your issues. You can do that. This is a safe place. These people love you no matter what.
[00:28:47] Justin: Yeah. And
[00:28:47] Don: that's good news.
[00:28:48] Justin: That's been controlled systems that have been created for us, which have maybe stopped us from living up to our full spiritual potential.
[00:28:56] Don: Oh yeah. You know, a lot of times. Like the
[00:28:58] Justin: word catholic, [00:29:00] catholic. It just means universal, right? So it's just a, um, it's, it's a good way of saying a universal religion, which is good and it has its place in the world. But if you just look at the meaning of these things, you can start to kind of understand where there's, you know, certain, , discrepancies, I guess.
[00:29:19] Don: Oh yeah.
[00:29:19] Justin: But when it comes to the church itself, The people the the group of believers are the church Not the building not the building. No, it's it's the fellowshipping of believers. Yes. It is the outreach of believers doesn't have to be a Giant group of 10 000 people because you can't minister to 10 000 people effectively.
[00:29:40] Justin: You can't minister to 50 500 people effectively. Probably, probably not even 200 people. Right. Because you need to get everybody on the same page. Like you're saying, Paul needed to see Jesus in these people. He needed to see Christ working in them in their lives, taking over before he could move on. You think you can do that to 200 people at once?
[00:29:58] Justin: No. No. [00:30:00] With their lives and what the way the world is with the distractions in the world and with the unforgiveness that's going on and the way that people portray themselves as different people when they go to the church on Sundays and they kind of even disguise their own lives or maybe they're lying about things or maybe they're just being not openly transparent.
[00:30:20] Justin: It's hard to see that. To see those things right and in the modern sense of things the pastor the pastor has a tough role because the pastor has to basically Take over everything within the business of the building of the church all of the events all of the issues You know You have preparing for all these sermons and you have to plan all these events and all this funding and all the stuff It becomes Very taxing there's got to be a more simple way to do this and there is a more effective way I don't think we're supposed to be stressed out when we're preaching the gospel to people I don't think that God is putting us in positions to be so overwhelmed and stressed out I think there's a [00:31:00]true way of doing it.
[00:31:01] Justin: There's a true way that the enemy Um, does not want us to know he doesn't want, , the truth behind really spreading the gospel, the truth behind what the church was intended to be, the truth behind what the body is intended to be. He doesn't want that to be known to people. No, he's doing everything in his power to stop that, to keep it controlled, to keep it sacred.
[00:31:23] Justin: You know, we're only certain people can know certain things and you have to go through People to, to hear from God. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to go through people to help you. Mm-Hmm. with problems instead of talking directly to God. Yeah. And you have to go to buildings to make it seem like your life is in good shape, , which, , you know, guarantees a spot in heaven for you and all these things.
[00:31:46] Justin: Right. And, and you have to go there because if you don't, you live in fear of being punished by God. Right. So. I
[00:31:53] Don: think we're on to something here, Justin, I really do. And that's where I think it's important, because I know I've played different [00:32:00] roles in life, and until Jesus is formed in a person, you're babysitting them.
[00:32:05] Don: You know, you're just helping them with their issues over and over again. But if we can, you know, Get into a place where we can minister and show Jesus to them and minister encourage them the good news of everything When I find people like that in my life, they are treasures They are gold because they're going to help me.
[00:32:22] Don: They're going to laugh with me. They're going to cry with me You know, whatever the situations I go into and that's where we're hoping, you know, like in a podcast like this You can say a lot of stuff and just laying it out there But we're hoping that What we say can be caught and that somebody can reach out and get themselves to a place where they can allow Jesus in, you know, where Jesus can be a part of their life and they can see things and receive the power of what God is wanting of them.
[00:32:49] Don: Because we're given one chance in all this. Jesus came as a pattern, you know, a lot of people think that because he suffered and died, everybody got a free pass somewheres, but [00:33:00] no, he came as a pattern, you know, and he. He established a church body to protect one another. And this is something, you know, that you don't connect yourself with people that have issues.
[00:33:12] Don: People who are not got, haven't gotten themselves to the point where they can love you no matter what you are in life, you know, and that, and this is something that we are trying to develop in our lives because this is gold. This is where the riches are. It really is.
[00:33:27] Justin: And I'm not anti church. I'm actually very pro church.
[00:33:31] Justin: I think everybody should go and be a part of a church, a group of believers. But I think you shouldn't just go to church. You should
[00:33:39] Don: be the church. Right. Become that lively stone that you can fit in, that you are part of what God is trying to do in a body of believers where he is in the throne. Well, I think that wraps it
[00:33:55] Justin: up for today.
[00:33:56] Justin: This was a good one, Justin. I think so, too. [00:34:00] Hey, we're glad you guys found your way here today, and we hope you can join us again next week for another good word. Until then, stay blessed by the best. See you guys.
